Tuesday, July 22, 2008

Catholic Caveman: "The Main Reason I Won't Vote For John McCain"

Our favorite stone-age Marine spells out the main reason he (and I) cannot support John McCain:
... I'll wholeheartedly agree that the Obamanation is a first class baby-butcher. After all, in regards to children who survived the abortion procedure, he's the same guy who did not want to concede -- as he explained in a cold-blooded speech on the Illinois Senate floor -- that these babies, fully outside their mothers' wombs, with their hearts beating and lungs heaving, were in fact "persons."

All that aside, it's time for an integrity check... there's no getting around it - John McCain is also in favor of murdering children.

Anyhow, unless McCain fully, sincerely and substantially renounces his stance on ESCR, there simply is no way I can vote for him. We all know what
the five non-negotiables are. We can't pick-and-choose. We either abide by them all, or throw them all out the window. Period, end of story.

(emphasis in original)

My Comments:
Amen, Cavey. Unless and until McCain renounces his position on ESCR, I cannot, in good conscience, support him.

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At 7/22/2008 4:03 PM, Blogger Jeff Miller said...

What about the fact that GOP pres candidate have been in favor of a rape and incest exemption clause for abortion despite the parties plank?

I don't see how ESCR in regards to frozen embryo's is much different, especially since scientist really are not pursuing research using embryos because of tissue match problems. McCain postion on allowing the use of frozen human embryos is totally morally wrong, but his ESCR support is also against human cloning and any creation of embryos for research purposes which is where all the reasearch is at.

I can understand the Caveman's position and I am highly sympathetic to it especially if you live in a state that will go predominantly Obama anyway or one that will go predominantly McCain. It comes down to a moral calculus and prudence, but it certainly would not be sinful to decide to support one candidate that does endorse a intrinsic evil because of consideration for the greater good when the other candidate supports the same moral evil along with many others - granting that you don't accept that moral evil. It is not voting for a lesser evil, but a greater good. It is also not sinful to take the Caveman's position which can certainly be done prudentially and in good conscience.

At 7/22/2008 9:48 PM, Blogger Jay Anderson said...

I guess I draw a distinction between those who are willing to make political compromises on some abortions in order to get the vast majority of abortions outlawed and those who support a new federal policy that will lead to the deaths of MORE innocents.

As I've mentioned here before, I see ESCR as, in many ways, MORE evil than abortion because it contemplates killing the unborn as an instrumentality toward achieving some other end.

At 7/23/2008 8:04 AM, Blogger Zachary said...

Exactly what effect will a President's support for ESCR have?

That is, can the president, other than through the use of the bully pulpit or signing/vetoing a bill written by Congress, change the ESCR laws?

My understanding is that he doesn't have the power to do much other than the two aforementioned actions.

At 7/23/2008 8:25 AM, Blogger Jay Anderson said...

Right now, because of President Bush's vetoes, the federal government does not fund ESCR.

Under a President McCain, your tax dollars will be put to work to destroy human embryos for the purpose of "research".

That, alone - regardless of what other power to affect ESCR the President may have, is reason enough not to support McCain.

At 7/23/2008 6:58 PM, Blogger Jeff Miller said...

Well actually the Federal government allows research using existing stem-cell lines. There was never a total moratorium. Bush's decision was not quite perfect, but could have been much worse.

"As I've mentioned here before, I see ESCR as, in many ways, MORE evil than abortion because it contemplates killing the unborn as an instrumentality toward achieving some other end"

Well abortion itself is always done as a means to some other end, not just to kill the unborn child. Whether the reason is career, inconvenience, money, age etc they do it for some other end.

Good point though on a new Federal program that can lead to more deaths. But there is no push for Federal money to fund ESCR using so-called frozen embryos and scientifically it is quite doubtful that this will happen in the future. There are not enough of these embryos and they would have to be donated to be used anyway so there is no real supply. As long a McCain actually is against cloning (therapeutic and otherwise) and creating embryos for research he is effectively against all forms of ESCR currently being done and that in reality could be done.

But it is certainly a gigantic moral lapse on his part that shows he does not really understand that life begins at conception. We should never forget that human lives lie in the balance.

At 7/23/2008 7:02 PM, Blogger Jeff Miller said...

"Under a President McCain, your tax dollars will be put to work to destroy human embryos for the purpose of "research""

I don't think this statement is self-evident considering the limitations he has supported on ESCR. The question is is he telling the truth about no cloning and no creation of embryos? If he is then there will be no Federal dollars supporting research on human embryo's for the reasons I already commented on.


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