Tuesday, March 25, 2008

Nice Friends You on the Catholic Left Have There

The other day, a commenter at Vox Nova (NOT one of the blog's contributors) attempted to tar all conservatives by association with the allegedly "conservative" Pat Buchanan, who had recently proclaimed that American slavery was the best thing that ever happened to the African peoples:
Pat Buchanan represents the scummy core of modern conservatism. [ED.: I guess the term "paleo-conservative" and its meaning is completely lost on this person.] The only way you'll distance yourself from him is to cease being conservative entirely.
Okay, lefties. Never mind that Pat Buchanan and most Americans calling themselves "conservative" parted company years ago. Never mind that, in many ways, he has more in common with the extremes on the left than he does with most people on the right (as another Vox Nova commenter (again, NOT one of the blog's contributors) put it, Buchanan is "a good example of how the extreme Right runs smack into the extreme Left").

Two can play at your snotty little guilt-by-association game. Christopher Blosser has a couple of posts at Catholics in the Public Square providing textbook examples of the routine nonsense "your side" engages in. Nice friends you guys on the "Catholic left" have there:
  • Obama's followers smear Pope Benedict as a Nazi

  • Chicago anti-war protestors disrupt Easter Mass, throw blood on parishioners
  • The only way you'll distance yourself from this anti-Catholic nonsense is to cease your support for Obama and your pacifist activities entirely.

    What's sauce for the goose ...

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    14 Comments:

    At 3/25/2008 9:34 AM, Blogger Rich Leonardi said...

    Vox Nova: Where dorm-room progressivism and logical fallacies meet.

     
    At 3/25/2008 10:24 AM, Anonymous Policraticus said...

    Rich,

    What a measured, informed and reasoned statement! How impressive to dismiss all of us as adolescently minded and rationally muddled. No lack of logic there!

    Jay,

    Thank you for noting that those statements were not made by contributors.

     
    At 3/25/2008 11:23 AM, Anonymous Mike said...

    Jay;

    I read the whole Buchanan article and find nothing wrong with it. My ancestors were forced here because of genocide committed by the English, and then they had to live under the most inhumane conditions for the robber barons, who were in most part of English ancestry, but all in all that toil was the best thing that ever happened to the Irish people. And one other note, Catholics are still targeted for discrimination. I’ll be willing to bet Pastor Wright has said some of the same slurs as Pastor Hagee! But I digress…

    I have gone back and forth through the years with Mr. Buchanan, but one thing I have found is that if one takes a single line out of the whole it can easily be contrived as mean spirited or bigoted. However, when you read the whole I have to say he is right on the mark… as he is with this article. Yes, slavery is the best thing that happened to those people because since these people were captured in battle by other Africans they may have faired worst by being sold to Muslim slave traders, which still goes on today, or worst, executed as was the Chantee practice. The unfortunate aspect of our history is that western civilization slavery end last in the United States and not sooner, and that for another 100 years our ancestors treated them worst than slaves. But we do not live in that time, nor do my ancestors in Britain. We are here today.

    I read Buchanan daily, or as often has he publishes. He is a good Roman Catholic, US Citizen, and a solid voice of traditional conservatives grounded in the writings of Russell Kirk. I read nothing in that article that I have not read before by Thomas Sowell, Armstrong Williams or Walter E. Williams; the difference was that it was Pat Buchanan saying it.

     
    At 3/25/2008 12:27 PM, Blogger Tito said...

    Policraticus,

    Happy Easter.

    Tito

     
    At 3/25/2008 1:07 PM, Blogger Steve said...

    I'm with you, Mike. I'm a Pat B. fan.

     
    At 3/25/2008 1:16 PM, Blogger Tim A. Troutman said...

    Policraticus - have you considered the possibility that Rich is dismissing your site out of sincere disagreement and is posting his opinion (as opposed to his full reasoned argument)?

     
    At 3/25/2008 1:52 PM, Anonymous Tom McKenna said...

    Yeah, the article does not praise the institution of slavery, it merely points out the truism that blacks are better off in today's America than if they had remained in their third-world African homes.

    Same could be said for many folks whose ancestors came here in freedom, including my Irish and English forbears. Even our Latino immigrants acknowledge by their arduous journies here that it's better to start on the bottom in America than stay in a festering third world nation.

    Dittos with Mike and Steve,PJB is merely what all conservatives used to be (and some still are).

     
    At 3/25/2008 1:53 PM, Anonymous paul zummo said...

    PJB is merely what all conservatives used to be (and some still are).

    All right, can we acknowledge that Pat might have a point without re-writing the definition of conservatism in the process?

     
    At 3/25/2008 1:57 PM, Blogger Jay Anderson said...

    I must admit that I find myself not in the "neocon" camp; but neither do I find myself in the PJB camp (indeed, I agree with some but am offended by much of what he has to say).

    So, I don't know where that leaves me. I self-identify as a "conservative", but short of, say, Sam Brownback, there seem to be precious few in public life who actually represent what I believe.

     
    At 3/25/2008 2:00 PM, Blogger Jay Anderson said...

    But if Regular Guy Paul gets elected, that could all change.

    ;-)

     
    At 3/25/2008 2:11 PM, Anonymous paul zummo said...

    So, I don't know where that leaves me. I self-identify as a "conservative"

    Well, if you're not a paleocon, and you're not a neocon, that pretty much leaves you in the same camp as I am in - unhyphenated conservative.

     
    At 3/25/2008 2:19 PM, Blogger Jay Anderson said...

    Yeah, but you're a "cranky" conservative. I'm trying to be a little less "cranky" than I used to be.

    ;-)

     
    At 3/25/2008 3:46 PM, Anonymous Policraticus said...

    Policraticus - have you considered the possibility that Rich is dismissing your site out of sincere disagreement and is posting his opinion (as opposed to his full reasoned argument)?

    If sweeping caricature and dismissal of the opinions of 12 contributors is how Rich voices his "sincere disagreement," then I response remains ever more pertinent. The irony of playing the "logical fallacies" card within the scope of logical fallacy!

     
    At 3/26/2008 6:58 AM, Blogger Jeffrey Smith said...

    "So, I don't know where that leaves me. I self-identify as a "conservative", but short of, say, Sam Brownback, there seem to be precious few in public life who actually represent what I believe."
    Then why don't you just admit that you've become a bit too Catholic to keep up this farce?

     

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