Friday, September 22, 2006

Meet the Next President: Giuliani Tops in Early GOP Polls

The GOP continues to sell its soul:
WASHINGTON - If the polls are to be believed, Republicans want to nominate an pro-choice, anti-gun, thrice-married, New York City champion of gays and illegal aliens for president in 2008.

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani — at least on paper — is precisely the sort of candidate that most conservatives would vote against in a GOP presidential primary.

And yet in person, Giuliani is a living reminder of the powerful leadership he displayed in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. That leadership has translated into enormous credibility on the all-important issue of national security, which Giuliani hopes will assuage conservatives who disagree with his positions on social issues.

“We need a leader who can look to the future and realize the goal that we’re trying to accomplish, which is to make the world safe from terrorism,” Giuliani told a gathering of Iowa Republicans in May. “To make sure that attacks like we experienced on September 11 — or they experienced in the United Kingdom on July 7, just last year — make sure we do everything we can to prevent them and avoid them.”

Such rhetoric represents a shift in emphasis for Giuliani, who in 1999 made a point of telling CNN: “I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights.” As mayor, he routinely marched in New York’s gay pride parades and even appeared in drag at various functions, several of which were nationally televised.

The recent shift to national security is a welcome relief to those who would like to see Giuliani in the White House.

“Yes, he has a very inclusive record on gay rights,” says Patrick Sammon, executive vice president of Log Cabin Republicans. “But ultimately, people are most concerned about who’s able to keep their family safe. And that’s certainly going to be more important to people than what the candidate might feel about gay rights.”


[More]
(emphasis added)

My Comments:
So, this is the sum total of what the Republican Party has become? If this is all that matters, then the GOP really is the "War Party". Or, perhaps, the "War and Security Party".

The Dems (the "Death Party") sacrifice everything on the high altar of abortion. But are the Republicans that much better?

If conservatives will support Rudy Giuliani, then this is what supporting the GOP has come to mean: We'll sacrifice all of our principles. We'll sacrifice a lot of our freedoms. We'll even sacrifice our eternal souls when it comes to torture. All on the altar of "security".

Saving our lives only to lose our souls. Keep us "safe", Rudy. Apparently, that's the ONLY thing that REALLY matters.


Previous Pro Ecclesia posts on this subject:
Presidential Election Still 2 Years Away, But GOP Seems Intent on Self-Immolation

The Conservative Case Against Rudy Giuliani In 2008

Southern Appeal Takes on The Anchoress' Support for Rudy Giuliani's Presidential Aspirations

Pro-Abort, Pro-Gay, Anti-Gun Republican Tops Pro-Abort, Pro-Gay, Anti-Gun Democrat in Recent Poll

Four in 10 Republicans Would Not Find McCain an "Acceptable" Nominee

Pro-Abort/Pro-Gay Republican Tops Pro-Abort/Pro-Gay Democrat In Presidential Poll - Who Cares?

Pat Robertson Says Giuliani Would Be "Good President"

9 Comments:

At 9/22/2006 1:24 PM, Blogger Victor said...

Jay:

I don't think there's any real reason to think Giuliani will either win the GOP nomination or that religious conservatives will have supported Giuliani in such a case. Polls at this point can be dismissed, I think, as a reflection of name-recognition (where was John Kerry in September 2002? Not even on the map.)

For one thing, the most pro-Rudy person in that article by Bill Sammon (an ex-colleague, full-disclosure) is from the Log Cabin Republicans. And the Conservative Party spokesman is offering punditry, not praise, about a hypothetical "another 9/11" scenario. And further down, Sammon details copiously all the social-conservative-related reasons Giuliani won't win. The other consideration is that the one issue Giuliani is bullet-proof on -- terrorism -- is not one on which he has a *significant* advantage over John McCain. And for all McCain's shortcomings, he is far more acceptable on social issues than Giuliani. I'm not saying a McCain-Giuliani showdown for the GOP nomination would not be a nose-holding choice (I believe you once said, Jay, you would vote for neither on principle). It would. But I don;t see any scenario -- short of the proverbial "dead girl or live boy pictures" -- for Giuliani to best McCain.

That said (and as Sammon notes), if by some bizarre set of circumstances Giuliani should become the GOP nominee, and the November alternative be Hillary, I could imagine many religious conservatives voting for Giuliani (with many others staying home, sure). After all, it's not as though Giuliani is any worse than Hillary on abortion, gay marriage, etc.

 
At 9/22/2006 1:43 PM, Blogger Jay Anderson said...

In a Rudy-Hillary smackdown, I see no substantive difference between the two, even on national security issues (Hillary will see the need to be "strong" on military and national security issues in order to prove that "woman" does note equal "weak" - for example, as far as I know, she has never backed away from her support for the Iraq War).

In such a scenario, I would vote for neither candidate. The bright side of a Hillary win, however, is that the GOP could actually oppose her agenda.

As for McCain: to me, it all comes down to the judges (well, that and the fact that he's every bit as narcissistic as Bill Clinton). I don't believe McCain will nominate constitutionalist or originalist judges. It's clear he will only nominate judges who agree with him on McCain-Feingold, which aren't the types of judges who will act with restraint in other areas of the law.

So no, I won't support McCain either.

 
At 9/22/2006 1:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not saying a McCain-Giuliani showdown for the GOP nomination would not be a nose-holding choice (I believe you once said, Jay, you would vote for neither on principle). It would. But I don;t see any scenario -- short of the proverbial "dead girl or live boy pictures" -- for Giuliani to best McCain.

I'm not so sure. Over at ConfirmThem (before RedState killed it), Giuliani was a lot more popular across the board than McCain. Part of it was the Gang of 14 deal, but it was also because of immigration and the perception that Rudy is more reliable, once his party heresies are acknowleged.

That said (and as Sammon notes), if by some bizarre set of circumstances Giuliani should become the GOP nominee, and the November alternative be Hillary, I could imagine many religious conservatives voting for Giuliani (with many others staying home, sure).

If Giuliani wins, there will definitely be a significant social conservative third party run. I doubt even the prospect of Hillary could keep religious conservatives on the reservation under those circumstances.

 
At 9/22/2006 2:08 PM, Anonymous Tony said...

Seems to me that if it's a Giuliani / Clinton face off in 2008, we still have to consider that it'll be a campaign between Screwtape (Guiliani) and Satan (Clinton).

I know we really don't want to vote for the devil, but poltical realities have to be acknowledged. We need to make sure the lesser of two evils gets in.

 
At 9/22/2006 2:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know we really don't want to vote for the devil, but poltical realities have to be acknowledged. We need to make sure the lesser of two evils gets in.

Be careful with that line of thinking: you may just find that the Democrat is the lesser of the two evils, especially if we're talking about a Republican candidate like Giuliani.

 
At 9/22/2006 2:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, one can make a very reasonable argument for Hillary being the lesser of two evils in a Rudy-Hillary matchup since a) the Republicans could actually oppose her policies (as Jay pointed out) and b) the GOP might actually survive as a pro-life, pro-family party if she wins, which would not be the case if Giuliani won. If I thought like the "You must choose! Hitler or Stalin!" brigade, I could have ended up feeling compelled to vote for Hillary come 2008. Thankfully I don't so I won't.

 
At 9/22/2006 5:06 PM, Blogger St. Jimbob of the Apokalypse said...

I'm serious, guys, a catholic-values party would reduce the nailbiting in the polling booth. Our values are split between parties right now, reducing our overall ability to take the ball and run. I know that it looks impossible, but hey, it would be worth it just to have a clear conscience on voting day.

 
At 9/22/2006 7:20 PM, Blogger Fidei Defensor said...

I am thinking Rudy running for Preisdent would have plenty of adverse affects on the state of the Catholic Church in America as well.

1-Pundits would point out what a joke the Vatican is that a "Catholic" like Rudy has no regard for them.

2-You would start seeing some varriation of this line everywere you look, "many Catholics, even prominent conservative Catholic leaders such as Rudy Giuliani support (abortion/gay marriage/stem cell research/insert evil here.)

3-The seperation of one's claimed religious faith and the beleifs they support in public would be near complete, a lot of the Republican first, Catholic second, types would be working overtime to justify the artifical seperation of faith and reason and a lot of poorly catechisized folks would buy it.

4-The liberals within the Church would run with it, "You see we were right all along to support democrats, atleast they care about poor people." These folks would drag the Church into bed with the democrats, of course that bed is full of people who HATE the church.

5-An election between two pro-choice candidates would be the ultimate victory for the pro-life movement. The Republicans would have to get just whiped for them to return to that issue.

has to happen

1-Rudy has a MAJOR change of heart on these issues.

2-The Republicans have to run a true conservative, I have nothing but support for Catholic Convert Sam Brownback but there are a few other republicans who may be in the running that I like.

3-In the event of a pro-choice on pro-choice election a third party some kind of Catholic Center Party or Christian Democrat Party, whatver should be formed.

4-If all else fails we can all move to Ireland. It is English speaking, the economy is booming, and the Catholic Culture there is starting to crumble, massive emmigration of devout US Catholics could be just the shot in the arm that nation needs! Haha

 
At 9/23/2006 10:50 PM, Blogger Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

As I have blogged elsewhere the GOP is better off losing than winning with a pro-death candidate.

Jay, you know I agree about both Giuliani and McCain, but I believe that what's going on now is nothing more than the MSM's attempt, as it comes every cycle, to crown a winner before any votes are cast.

Well, that's how George W. Bush got the nomination in 2000 (and earlier, for Texas governor, in 1994), and how Bob Dole got the nomination in 1996. I think we conservatives all know that the MSM's "obvious pick" for our party is not the one that will do our cause the most good.

If we must have a devil, or a lizard, better it should be a Democrat than a Republican.

 

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